*** Logfile started *** on Mon Jul 9 01:28:07 2007 [01:28:07] Join You have joined the channel #hbh (~hazed@rasterized--4FB7CDB5.static.dsl.dodo.com.au). [01:28:08] Topic The channel topic is "#hbh // Help-> irc@rt.rmachine.net // Idle RPG Channel Needed // Gumbie: Message Richo ASAP.|| http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm || [16:58] i would love to show you strayfe but unfortunatly my gf is at the door now | and frankly, "girl" doesnt meet my requirements". [01:28:08] Topic The topic was set by Caity on 07/07/2007 03:08:28 PM. [01:28:08] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, topic protection, server reop, f, j [01:28:08] Created This channel was created on 10/30/2006 12:19:30 AM. [01:31:06] I'll be back in 10 minutes. [01:33:48] Join z3ro has joined this channel (~z3ro@rasterized--57E252C0.dyn.personainc.net). [01:33:56] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privileges to z3ro. [01:33:56] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privileges to z3ro. [01:33:59] yoO [01:35:06] ehhh [01:35:08] no1 live? [01:35:18] yes [01:35:23] ahh [01:35:24] * strayfe is [01:35:26] :) [01:35:28] sup? [01:35:37] doing AP government summer work [01:35:46] nice [01:35:46] Quit asdf has left this server (Ping timeout). [01:35:47] yourself? [01:35:51] just woke up [01:35:53] mmm [01:36:02] waking up at 10:30... [01:36:02] yea [01:36:04] * strayfe tuts [01:36:04] no [01:36:06] 11:30 [01:36:10] >.< [01:36:12] ah, whoops [01:36:14] :P [01:36:16] wrong z3ro [01:36:26] gah g2g [01:36:27] bbl [01:36:29] Part z3ro has left this channel. [01:36:31] I thought I was talking to x3r0 for some reason [01:36:33] dammit! [01:36:34] fuck [01:36:41] lol [01:36:43] lol [01:38:10] lasmot got this section of questions done.. [01:38:15] *almost [01:41:59] done [01:43:42] Join asdf has joined this channel (woot@rasterized--D1F0D43A.cable.ubr02.newy.blueyonder.co.uk). [01:43:43] back [01:47:16] Join mikispag has joined this channel (~mikispag@rasterized--76906D44.retail.telecomitalia.it). [01:47:35] Part mikispag has left this channel (Bye!). [01:49:00] Join RoMeOx has joined this channel (~romeo.hax@7C7C1658.355826FD.636EB89.IP). [01:50:37] Quit root_op has left this server (Quit:). [01:51:38] wb [01:51:44] hey [01:51:58] ty [01:51:59] 'lo [01:52:45] speech is in 40 mins [01:53:06] :) good lol *waits* [01:53:18] whats it about today? [01:53:45] EVIL WHITEHATZ [01:53:51] to put it simply [01:54:10] cool [01:54:51] why does it say nick RoMeO is in use :s [01:55:49] Nick asdf is now known as RoMe0. [01:55:53] No it doesn't :P [01:55:56] Nick RoMe0 is now known as asdf. [01:56:07] XD [01:56:14] No it doesn't :P [01:56:17] wtf [01:56:18] :s [01:56:21] lol [01:56:28] RoMeO Nickname is already in use. [02:01:17] 11:58 -!- RoMeO [~romeo.hax@7C7C1658.355826FD.636EB89.IP] [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- ircname : Romeo Haxxor [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- server : irc.zloche.net [Zloche IRC Server - RasterizedNet server] [02:01:18] 11:58 -!- End of WHOIS [02:01:18] [02:01:26] becasue it's already in use [02:01:36] just like the error message would indicate [02:01:44] Funny how that works, eh? [02:02:10] huh :s well why its not on the online list xD [02:02:22] anyways lol dont care no more XD *waits for lecture* [02:02:28] it's not in NAMES [02:02:38] all that means the person using it isn't in the channel [02:02:54] ahh kk now i know what went wrong xD [02:03:06] * uniques wants to know where these random files appeared from, as in who the fuck had the audacity to download a 0-day and run it. [02:04:00] uniques: what did you run before they appeared? [02:04:07] Absolutely fuck all. [02:04:17] :/ [02:04:17] I didn't touch the box all day. [02:04:21] crazy [02:04:34] I can't find shit in any logs. [02:04:37] are you root on the box? [02:04:40] no. [02:04:43] oh [02:04:55] Well I am, but I don't run as root. [02:05:06] I meant do you have root access. [02:05:13] yes I do. [02:05:18] But yea, logs can be modified [02:05:23] but I doubt you got owned. [02:05:44] I am unfamiliar with typical "ownage" behaviours. [02:05:45] BTW, I've had sync do that to more before. [02:05:53] s/more/me/ [02:05:58] strayfe: get some coffee down you. [02:06:06] I don't like coffee [02:06:09] hmmm [02:06:46] orange juice, well either way the behaviour is not nice and as it's a proprietary OS it makes me even more concerned. [02:06:56] What OS is it? [02:07:03] It's OSX. [02:07:07] Ah. [02:07:11] hehehe [02:07:15] maybe you did get owned then [02:07:21] OS X is like swiss cheese [02:07:27] Maybe I did. [02:07:45] *everybody* has OS X 0day [02:08:04] Really, I see, how does it work? [02:08:16] define:it? [02:08:29] What does it exploit? [02:08:44] It depends on the 0day [02:08:50] I have a few local kernel overflows [02:09:11] Join ReVoLT has joined this channel (~ReVoLT@roflmcwaffle.net). [02:09:11] Mode HellBound gives ReVoLT the permission to talk. [02:09:21] :/ [02:09:28] bastard wireless card [02:09:39] anyone used svn on linux? [02:09:45] uniques: OS X is not as secure as Apple would like you to think. [02:09:45] yes yes [02:09:52] ReVoLT: client or server? [02:10:00] I've used the client [02:10:06] client [02:10:15] what do you need? [02:10:20] yeah thats why they don't want to attract attention to it [02:10:26] well i don't actually know [02:10:34] i'm trying to get this wireless card working [02:10:49] and svn figures into this how? [02:10:50] i think i have to install the version from svn site? [02:11:00] read the instructions [02:11:02] because the one with the kernel doesn't work [02:11:04] follow them [02:11:07] ... [02:11:11] ReVoLT: what uniques said [02:11:26] yes if there were instructions [02:11:32] Join lesserlights has joined this channel (~lesserlig@rasterized--E18F029B.buffalo.res.rr.com). [02:11:33] one sec [02:11:59] What time be-eth the lecture at, Strayfe? [02:12:08] uniques: what are the contents of the files? [02:12:14] XPherior: in about 20 minuets [02:12:22] I'm gonna go do something, then I'll be back for that. [02:12:27] k [02:12:28] haha that is where I completely fucked up, I just deleted them. [02:12:28] I pushed work off an hour for you. xD [02:12:35] uniques: :/ [02:12:36] "This file contains new version4 firmware. v4 firmware is _not_ supported by the driver in mainline kernels. For v4 firmware you need latest bcm43xx development version (wireless-dev kernel tree). [02:12:38] " [02:12:53] whats the lecture about? [02:13:12] ReVoLT: http://hellboundhackers.org/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=19&thread_id=9052 [02:13:13] i would have looked on the forum [02:13:20] but like its down for maintenance [02:14:02] arg can't see it [02:14:09] bah [02:14:11] I'm not tooo worried, I have a few machines here, BUT I don't like paying $2K+ for a laptop in which I just install a free UNIX clone. [02:14:13] not my day again [02:14:26] NOW HERE THIS! [02:14:27] I will be giving a speech on IRC about the anti-security movement, its goals, ideals and values, etc, etc. I will also be including a fairly lengthy segment about how the security industry has become greedy and corrupt. [02:14:31] The speech will take place on HBH's IRC server. irc.rasterized.net #hbh will get you there. The speech will be on Sund ay, July 8th 2007 at 12:30 EDT (30 minuets past noon). Tell your friends about it, the more people that show up the better. [02:14:34] Be there or be square. [02:14:37] [02:14:48] lol [02:14:58] Do you take comments? [02:14:59] lol [02:15:04] uniques: Sure [02:15:08] great. [02:15:10] will it be a lecture then like Q&A? [02:15:11] Now who owned me. [02:15:21] ReVoLT: I supposer. [02:15:33] if you're owned at all [02:15:47] Let's hope it's a bogus software bug. [02:16:29] or you did something crazy with dd in an under caffinated state [02:16:56] lol [02:17:06] Yeah well I don't think I did. Hmmm maybe. Unless Richo jumped on and played silly buggers when I was passed out. [02:17:17] svn checkout just shows you what files are in the repository? [02:17:25] no it checks them out [02:18:01] svn checkout $1 $2 [02:18:15] ReVoLT: svn help [02:18:28] yeah [02:18:36] just figured to try svn help checkout -.- [02:18:40] too tired for this [02:19:10] strayfe: 10 minutes left =D [02:19:16] asdf: yup [02:19:16] 11 [02:19:24] uniques: my clock says 10 [02:19:38] Sun Jul 8 12:21:00 EDT 2007 [02:19:41] 9 now actually [02:19:58] Join aVoid has joined this channel (~aVoid@rasterized--D9B43E13.client.mchsi.com). [02:20:08] 'lo [02:20:09] This better be entertaining, it starts at 2:30am and I have a pdoc appointment at 8:10 [02:20:12] lol [02:20:24] uniques: Well I assume you're watning to ask questions? [02:20:28] *wanting [02:20:44] Yes or probably moan a bit, coming from a "white hat" background. [02:20:50] Back. :D [02:20:51] so anti-security movement is blackhat hating on whitehats? [02:21:13] Essentially. [02:21:17] But there [02:21:19] It's tough girl-on-girl action, that's what it is! [02:21:22] lol [02:21:24] *tehre's good reason to do os. [02:21:25] with muid? [02:21:27] mid* [02:21:32] mud* [02:21:35] Define a whitehat. Define a blackhat. Please do this. [02:21:43] But let me smoke [02:21:53] ReVoLT: I'll explain later. *Ceases sarcasm* :P [02:21:54] uniques: Alrighty. [02:22:04] xD [02:22:12] For the duration of my talk, the following definitions will apply: [02:22:49] whitehat: works for the security industry, gets paid to legally hack in into systems, may also audit code for a company like CORE SDI, ISS, etc. [02:23:27] blackhat: someone who hacks for a hobby, does not post exploits publically, does not work for a security company [02:23:39] strayfe: do you want to +m? [02:23:41] uniques: those definitions work for you? [02:23:43] uniques: nah [02:23:53] 5 minutes then by your clock, brb [02:24:01] yup [02:24:21] how are you hazed ? [02:24:31] should have asked cheese to put it in news? or something? [02:24:37] LOL [02:24:40] Cheese wouldn't have [02:24:41] like he'd support this [02:24:44] Roffles. [02:24:44] hes a qhitehat =P [02:24:46] oh [02:24:48] *whitehat [02:24:54] bullshit is he? [02:24:56] i mean [02:24:58] this goes against everything he stands for and believes in [02:25:04] then subliminal hacker group that he has [02:25:09] is rather [02:25:11] they're dead [02:25:12] gay? [02:25:12] yeah im good strayfe. looking forward to your speach [02:25:13] oh [02:25:13] lol [02:25:16] and they're lame [02:25:17] yeah gay [02:25:22] but it was [02:25:25] can't remember the work [02:25:30] contradictory [02:25:31] or w/e [02:25:37] they never did anything worht note [02:25:40] *worth note [02:25:49] heh [02:25:49] For fuck sake, I've got these neighbours who have 2 kids.. ANNOYING AS FUCK [02:25:55] lol [02:25:58] running round in front garden spraying each other with hoses [02:25:58] STFU [02:26:03] five across the face [02:26:10] will sort them out [02:26:13] Haha [02:26:14] >_< [02:26:15] They're like .. 11 [02:26:18] and 8 [02:26:28] start them early and they'll learn :P [02:26:30] Give 'em some candy. o.o [02:26:32] 7 for the 11 year old, 6 for the 8 [02:26:32] nah j/k [02:26:35] Don't get arrested, though. xD [02:26:50] Haha [02:27:04] I could just shut my window.. but that'd involve me standing up and shit [02:27:08] "Hey little boy..Want some..Candy?! *Points to van*" xD [02:27:19] lol [02:27:23] haha [02:28:01] now? [02:28:04] I kind of smell. :/ [02:28:08] *Needs a shower* [02:28:10] Kind of? [02:28:12] lol [02:28:13] arg [02:28:15] Yeah. :P [02:28:24] apparently my wireless card is an ethernet card :( [02:28:29] lmfao [02:28:30] fun [02:28:30] i know its not gonna work now [02:28:33] Haha. [02:28:35] okay [02:28:40] The speech is starting now [02:28:44] :) [02:28:45] Okies. :3 [02:28:45] so shut up. :) [02:28:48] =D [02:28:49] *me listens* [02:28:49] * uniques blows trumpet [02:28:53] XD [02:28:54] Rofl. [02:29:14] Okay, to quickly recap some definitions [02:29:21] For the duration of my talk, the following definitions will apply: [02:29:30] whitehat: works for the security industry, gets paid to legally hack in into systems, may also audit code for a company like CORE SDI, ISS, etc. [02:29:52] I'd like to amend that by saying they also post exploit code on sites like milw0rm.packetstorm/securityfocus/etc/etc [02:30:04] blackhat: someone who hacks for a hobby, does not post exploits publically, does not work for a security company [02:30:39] Now, the security industry is evil. [02:30:54] They lie to their clients, the public and the media [02:30:59] blows [02:31:08] They don't care about computer security at all; they just care about money. [02:31:16] They *want* the world to be insecure. [02:31:19] i like money [02:31:20] haha [02:31:22] sounds like cheese [02:31:29] +m [02:31:32] After all, if the world was completly secure, they wouldn't have a job now would they? [02:31:35] * hazed slaps you all. STFU [02:31:44] uniques: +m the chan and +v me [02:31:50] I was hoping we could avoid that by all being mature [02:31:52] Mode XPherior sets the channel mode to 'moderated'. [02:31:56] Mode XPherior gives strayfe the permission to talk. [02:32:01] ty [02:32:04] Welcome~ [02:32:30] So, as I was saying, if the world was prefectly secure, they're out a job. [02:32:31] Join Caity has joined this channel (~caity_5_4@rasterized--24A02B79.wp.shawcable.net). [02:32:31] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privileges to Caity. [02:32:31] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privileges to Caity. [02:32:39] They'd have no place in the world. [02:32:55] Hello [02:33:09] They directly contribute to insecurity and they feed the script kiddies. [02:33:44] Look at it logically. The whitehats post fully functional exploit code to widley known web sites, exploit code that can be downloaded by anyone and immedatly used to start owning boxen. [02:34:11] If the whitehats would stop doing this, the script kiddies would have *far* less ammo then they used to. [02:34:33] They'd eventually die off (alebit very slowly) [02:34:48] Now, the whitehats don't want this to happen. [02:34:51] So, Strayfe, how do we, the blackhats/unknown hats, fight that? [02:34:59] Because, again, they'd be out a job. [02:35:10] XPherior: ask me questions after I'm done please. [02:35:29] Alright. [02:35:55] So, the whitehats perpetuate the cycle. They work to get the exploits into the hands of script kiddies, so a lame company get get a box or two owned, and then call a security company to get a pen test done. [02:36:09] And the security company walks away with a new bundel of cash [02:36:39] Eventually certain people got tired of this. [02:36:41] Nick tele is now known as wtf_voice_plz. [02:36:54] And they started what's known as the anti-security movement. [02:36:56] Nick wtf_voice_plz is now known as fucking_lame. [02:37:06] Nick asdf is now known as stfu-tele. [02:37:07] Nick fucking_lame is now known as nbdy_cares_about_your_opinion. [02:37:11] Part nbdy_cares_about_your_opinion has left this channel. [02:37:16] What's the mode of no nick changes? [02:37:23] +N [02:37:26] +N, isn't it? [02:37:28] Mode XPherior sets channel mode +N [02:38:00] The idea here was to stop posting exploits, stop feeding the whitehats, and stop all communication between what was left of the hacker "underground" and the security industry. [02:38:23] Bear in mind this was circa 2000ish, when there actualyl still was a very active "underground" [02:39:13] The anti-security movement was intended for people who took the moderate stance. People who didn't like how things were working out, and wanted to try to change things. Oddly enough, some whitehats even adopted it, seeing the truth behind it. [02:40:01] There was another idea that also started however. It's a bit more widley known. pr0j3kt m4y3m was started by el8 in an attempt to destroy the security industry. [02:40:15] To destroy it by force. [02:40:39] TRhe iea was to own all the whitehats you could, drop their d0x, steal their 0days (if they had any) and rm their box. [02:41:15] After all, if a whitehat can't protect their home LAN (which one would expect to be a bastion of security), who would hire them for a pen-test and expect them to do a good job? [02:41:43] pr0j3kt m4yh3m was intended to shake the confidence of the IT industry in the security industry. [02:42:21] Eventually it moved away from el8 and spread to #phrack@EFNet after #phrack@EFNet was taken over by a group calling themselves the Phrack High Council [02:43:06] They were sort of a front group for pr0j3kt m4yh3m, publically prompting it's values through their site phrack.ru (which as down now as crg gave the domain to shiftee and xtx has to get it back) [02:43:31] jim jones picked up on pr0j3kt m4yh3m and spread it to the hack.co.za channel #darknet [02:44:23] later Jim Jones changed his nick to The_Unix_Terrorist, left #darknet and became affiliated with GOBBLES. Hew gave the famous "wolves among us" speech with GOBBLES and silvio at DEFCON X [02:45:12] For a speech that essentially made all the points I made earlier about whitehats, it was quite well recieved by the audience, most of whom were in fact security professionals themselves. [02:46:07] Today, in many sites like HTS, HBH, etc etc, blackhats are regarded as script kiddies, while it's cool to be a whtiehat and they're regarded as the "real hackers" [02:47:42] Why should we all become whitehats? What has the security industry ever done to benefit the internet at large? They post public exploits for the script kiddies, they spread lies and porpaganda about hackers, they've turned a fun hobby into a get rich quick scheme were if you ahve a CEH people think you're qualified, and they work to destroy the underground that gave birth to them. [02:47:55] Look at the Honeynet Project for a moment. [02:48:27] The idea is to set up networks of "research honeypots" to entrap the blackhat community and "study" their motives and tactics. [02:49:13] All the honeynet project catches are the really dumb, lame script kiddies [02:49:25] the kinds who have trouble with ./configure && make [02:49:27] Join s0m3nak3dguy has joined this channel (~bryce@37DB4EBD.168C3673.8D60AFAA.IP). [02:50:14] Really, who else goes around mass bruteforcing SSH logins or scanning /8's and /16's for vulns that are 3 or 4 years old? [02:50:35] they catch kids who still use that old rpcstatd overflow FFS [02:51:04] They never produce anything worth reading and yet the beg for funding and complain when they can't get it. [02:51:11] Join aaaaa has joined this channel (~aaaa@54A05AB5.5E213381.C70DE7BC.IP). [02:51:24] Hmm, I wonder why? It's such a feat to catch botnet hearders from the .ro or .br. [02:52:04] Take a look at Phrack magazine really quick. While it is getting better, for a while every article in an issue was written by a corporate whitehat. [02:52:23] Phrack founded itself upon the principles that it was "for hackers by hackers" [02:53:24] How do things like sebek fit into that category? sebek is intended to spy on hackers, and while it can be subverted to be a rootkit in the traditional sense of the word, there are better ones avalible. [02:53:51] Join |Zero|H|I|T| has joined this channel (~zerohacks@A96E3715.9FAB2AD4.9C3205B0.IP). [02:54:00] But yea, sebek was the the honeynet project's idea to spy on the hackers they trap. Too bad it was easy to detect for any one who had a small understanding of computers. [02:54:41] It hooked the read and write syscalls, and replaed them with it's own versions. It also messed up the distance between them and it was easy to write a small C program to detect sebek. [02:54:51] So mcuh for their "undetectable" solution. [02:55:58] The worst are the people that were "underground" hackers at one time and then turned their backs on the scene and their friends and sold out to the corporate side [02:56:20] They work against people who are exactly like they are. [02:56:44] They decry people who illegaly enter systems when a few short years ago they were doing exactly the same thing. [02:57:42] They work against their former friends. They ruin perfectly good exploits by thoughtlessly posting them on Full-Disclosure in an attempt to make a name for themselves. [02:58:00] Join DJDD has joined this channel (~1@rasterized--5DC18ED.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com). [02:58:01] [DJDD] All bow to the mighty DJ!!! [02:58:01] Mode HellBound gives channel admin privileges to DJDD. [02:58:01] Mode HellBound gives channel operator privileges to DJDD. [02:58:09] They post crappy code in the public domain in an attemot to make a name for themselves. [02:58:25] what tehy used to do for free they put a price tag on. [02:58:35] they sold their souls for money. [02:59:12] The security industry is the single biggest fear mongering market on the planet. [02:59:31] They use fear of hackers to motivate people to buy their services and products. [02:59:57] Now, alot of the bigger companies like Symantec, CORE SDI, ISS, etc etc have active 0day research and developmetn teams [03:00:29] they have teams of highly skilled individuals who audit ccode for a living, finding vulns in popular applications that are in the public domain. [03:00:50] Things like Apache, OpenSSH, the Linux kernel, IIS, etc etc [03:01:09] They then use these exploits in what special "0day penetration tests" [03:02:08] After they own the clients network they impress upon them the fact that it was very easy to do so and that there are 0day exploits activley circulating amongst the baclkhats, and they could jsut as eaisley own the network. [03:02:28] They charge a huge amount of money for 0days tests, usually at least $15,000 [03:02:56] When it comes time for their mitigation report, they have to offer a solution besides "don't use the vuln service" [03:03:24] Usually it's along the lines of "buy this product of ours, for a mere $20,000 you can be completly portected" [03:04:24] okay...hmmm [03:04:36] Then they go a publish a new vulneraility, come back and tell the client "oh yes, a new exploit was discovered and is public, now you need to pay for a service upgrade." [03:04:57] It all comes back to the fact that they don't want secure computers. [03:05:06] They thrive on a state of insecurity and fear. [03:05:34] Every new major exploit (recently safari and IE exploits) and very new worm or virus undergoes the predicatble media hype [03:05:50] they just care about the quarterly return. [03:05:58] the share holders [03:06:08] and the vacation homes of their CEO [03:06:38] Why should you help those who don't help you? [03:06:45] Why help those who want to destroy you? [03:07:13] When can we speak/respond? [03:07:17] Why help those who would love to use you as an example to strip up media hype to drive up their quarterly gains? [03:07:25] whatever, go now [03:07:31] Okay nice talk. [03:07:37] I'm mostly done. go ahead and -m [03:07:43] I have a few more points but they can wait [03:07:47] Mode uniques sets the channel mode to 'unmoderated'. [03:08:00] i have a few questions [03:08:03] *claps* bravo *claps* :) [03:08:11] Nice speach <3 [03:08:15] Excellent. :3 [03:08:18] but i've forgotten them now lol [03:08:19] ah [03:08:22] ReVoLT: go ahead [03:08:25] i wrote down a few. [03:08:26] Haha. [03:08:33] <|Zero|H|I|T|> Cool [03:08:34] thanks man. going well. [03:08:41] hasn't the phrack magazine ended? [03:08:50] no [03:08:58] phrack 64 was just released recently [03:09:10] ah ok [03:09:17] and project mayhem [03:09:22] strayfe, is project mayhem still active? (cba to type it out with numbers and shit) [03:09:24] did they get aload of whitehats? [03:09:40] yes and yes [03:10:07] uniques, do -N .. I need to change my nick [03:10:24] Mode XPherior sets channel mode -N [03:10:29] Nick stfu-tele is now known as asdf. [03:10:30] ty [03:10:33] Welcome. [03:10:44] Did anybody log that? Should post it as an article on HBH and EG [03:10:53] Yeah. I'll put it on HBH now. [03:10:56] Unless there's more. [03:11:16] XPherior: nah, it's mostly done [03:11:28] Alrighty. [03:11:37] and sebek [03:11:48] what about it? [03:11:54] when you said it changed the space between the hooked functions [03:12:06] was it like one had a high address [03:12:11] uh [03:12:12] it moved them farther apart [03:12:13]